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ad_p
Active Member
113 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Oct 2011 : 09:35:14
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Hi all,
In the roadgoing classes there is a rule that the car:
'must compete in a road legal condition'
Three questions:
1) Front numberplates: lots of people remove or change them. Perhaps this is to use the mounting holes for their timing strut, or to protect the identity of the car (common on trackdays) - should this be something that gets you in trouble with a scrutineer?
2) Say you run with a front numberplate on a pre 2001 car. If the car has passed MOTs with this numberplate for many years and it is clear and legiable - although perhaps not quite the regulation size, does anyone care and again should it get you in trouble with the scrutineers?
2) How on earth can a car be road legal when it has a metal timing strut fixed to the front? I have even been told that the timing strut shouldn't obscure the front numberplate! Doesnt this make any arguing over non performance enhancing things like number plates irrelevant?
Adam |
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StuartC
Regular Member
68 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2011 : 10:51:04
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I used to run a tiny front plate on the Imp, similar to that seen on many WRC cars, which did prompt a few comments but I was never actually asked to change it. I did change it to a larger plate for the MOT though.
The car is not in a road legal condition with a timing strut fitted or with race numbers on the doors so it really is a nit-picking point.
When the Ferrari owners club compete they all fit club plates to obscure their reg numbers and I suspect they are all competing in road legal condition (if not class) i.e. without MSA log books.
Having said that I have since changed my plate as I needed an MSA log book for the car when I competed in France and was told that the MSA routinely rejected log book applications where the accompanying photo showed a non-legal number plate.
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ad_p
Active Member
113 Posts |
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Woodman
Regular Member
39 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2011 : 19:59:57
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The scrut at silverstone asked me to fit a full size plate for the next meeting.
He did not want a stick on plate on the nosecone either (Westfield)
But he let me run, even tho I did not have one at all.
He said it was MSA lead |
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grboulter
Active Member
112 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2011 : 22:36:02
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Hi Stu,
I hear a BIG congratulations is in order!
FANTASTIC, I'm so pleased for you, WELL DONE!
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PeterH
Moderator
447 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2011 : 10:04:15
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I also got picked up by a scrut for the plastic bonnett mounted plate on my road legal MOT'd Marcos (as supplied by the factory in 1969)
I now carry a "Legal" metal plate to fit if a scrut has had a bad day
Marci Racing |
Edited by - PeterH on 15 Oct 2011 10:05:02 |
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StuartC
Regular Member
68 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2011 : 12:31:40
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Thanks Graham - dead chuffed!
ad_p said quote:
I thought a car didn't have to be road legal to get an MSA logbook?
I think you're right Adam but at the time I presented it as a roadgoing car so it needed to comply. I guess I could take the plates off altogether and have the logbook changed to re-classify it as modprod or whatever. I doubt your plate would even get you stopped by the police unless you'd really upset them. I would leave it as is and argue the case but as with Peter I might just have a legal plate in the boot just in case... |
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ad_p
Active Member
113 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2011 : 13:00:30
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My problem is that a legal plate blocks the two vents to the intercooler / radiators which you can see in the picture. The existing plate fits into the original recess in the bumper (i.e. the plate is the size it would have been if the car was in Japan). I suppose I could get an offset plate like you see on some Evo's.
On a related note can anyone clarify the rules with cutting holes in the front bumper in the Roadgoing / Mod prod classes? This was done on my car years ago and you see quite a lot of cars with the front bumper modified to improve air flow. Again, I was given a telling off for this by the scruitineer (roadgoing class).
The way I look at it, the existing vents are a small modification that hopefully help me keep the car vaguely competitive with the Evo's and Imprezza's (which come with a mass of openings in their front bumpers as standard). At the end of the day the rules should be encouraging a variety of cars to enter in the roadgoing classes - it makes it much more interesting than a Evo / Imprezza class.
For next year I am considering the move to mod prod and would need to improve airflow further if possible, so it would be good to understand what I can and can't do.
Thanks,
Adam |
Edited by - ad_p on 15 Oct 2011 13:04:44 |
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Eric_M
Committee member
21 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2011 : 14:34:30
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Adam
Is your car an Import, if it is, its allowed to run smaller front plates by law. I think the characters are 64mm instead of 79mm high. If in the picture the front bumper is the stock one, then the number plate cutout is designed for the jap plate sizes.
The other method , bit excessive tho', is get a cheaper private reg with only one number in, the plate can then be legally narrower. |
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ad_p
Active Member
113 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2011 : 14:42:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Eric_M
Adam
Is your car an Import, if it is, its allowed to run smaller front plates by law. I think the characters are 64mm instead of 79mm high. If in the picture the front bumper is the stock one, then the number plate cutout is designed for the jap plate sizes.
The other method , bit excessive tho', is get a cheaper private reg with only one number in, the plate can then be legally narrower.
The front bumper including number plate recess is original, the two small vents were cut in. My car was originally a UK car - I believe they just bolted a big black metal number plate holder over the existing recess for the UK market, which I don't have (lots of owners remove them as they damage the front bumper over time). |
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ad_p
Active Member
113 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2011 : 14:45:23
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quote:
Originally posted by StuartC
The car is not in a road legal condition with a timing strut fitted or with race numbers on the doors so it really is a nit-picking point.
This is an excellent point, and one I would like to see a response from the MSA on. |
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swilkinson
Active Member
480 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2011 : 09:16:28
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quote:
Originally posted by StuartC
The car is not in a road legal condition with a timing strut fitted or with race numbers on the doors so it really is a nit-picking point.
I think that you will find that the requirement to fit a timing strut &/or race numbers is in addition to the car being in "road legal condition".
As for nit-picking may I suggest your comments fall into this category! 
"Andy Priaulx, driving with great circumcision" John Moody |
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ad_p
Active Member
113 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2011 : 19:21:45
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11.2. Cars must compete in an event in a road legal
condition.
10.9. Timing Struts – Where timing is activated by a
light beam, the vehicles will be fitted at the front with a
vertical timing strut, minimum vertical height 254mm,
the bottom of which shall be not less than 180mm and
no more than 200mm from the ground. The strut will be
in matt black on both sides, over its total area, which
shall be not less than 254mm by 51mm. No other, or
further forward, part of the vehicle may interrupt these
dimensions or actuate the timing.
In my opinion 10.9 and 11.2 are mutually exclusive. Nowhere does it state an exemption to 11.2 for a timing strut.
Adam |
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HILLMAN
Regular Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2011 : 18:30:49
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I see that we have already entered the winter silly season!!!!!!!!!
If a man has the price of a loaf of bread, better he have half a loaf & a gallon of petrol |
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ad_p
Active Member
113 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 14:24:05
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Can anyone help with my bumper modification questions please?
Thanks,
Adam |
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HILLMAN
Regular Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2011 : 12:32:42
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The blue book states that production cars can have aerodynamic devices provided that they don't alter the silhouette. I can't see that your vents alter the silhouette.
If a man has the price of a loaf of bread, better he have half a loaf & a gallon of petrol |
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Topic |
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Roadgoing classes
